When I arrived in Seattle on the last weekend of September on assignment to interview death metal icons Broken Hope and Obituary it was my very first time setting foot in the emerald city. Being a long time Obituary fan I was somewhat more excited to be in Seattle for that particular interview on top of my usual sense of excitement in journeying to a new city. As a connoisseur of rock and metal specifically I am ashamed to admit that I had previously never heard of Broken Hope or enjoyed their music, which is why I wanted to interview them in the first place. When I began digging into their catalog in preparation for the discussion I discovered a unique chapter in the history of both death metal and grindcore.
Formed in the suburbs of Chicago by a young metal fanatic named Jeremy Wagner in 1988, Broken Hope has the distinction of being the first ever death metal band to record an entire album digitally and thus with 1991's Swamped In Gore the band ushered in a new era of digital recording for the genre. After their first album Broken Hope signed to Metal Blade Records for whom they recorded three albums between '93 and '97, but not without some hardship. Drummer Ryan Stanek was fired from the band after selling merchandise and pocketing the money and despite some personal differences within the band they managed to complete one more album, 1999's Grotesque Blessings before singer Joe Ptacek quit, eventually leading to the band's break up in 2001. Plans to reunite Broken Hope in 2010 were set back due to Ptacek's tragic suicide.
Two years later Broken Hope have fully mounted their come back with new band members and new resolve. When I arrived at the venue in Seattle on that Sunday afternoon in September not knowing what to expect from Jeremy Wagner I encountered someone who is not only an accomplished musician but an accomplished science fiction and horror author in his own right. Jeremy invited me onto the bus that his band was sharing with Obituary navigating me through several cases of Coors Light, he sat me down in the very back of the bus and with a thick windy city accent began to converse. He is a natural storyteller with a unique perspective on American death metal and a man who's hope remains very much unbroken.
Photo by Alexandra Crockett
Jeremy Wagner: Broken Hope hasn't played in Seattle or Reno before so there's a lot of new cities we're doing that we haven't done on this tour.
Wes Cueto: That's awesome, very cool to hear!
Jeremy Wagner: Every date has been really really good!
Wes Cueto: It must've been exciting coming up in the Chicago death metal scene. What impact has the scene had on Broken Hope and vice versa?
Jeremy Wagner: Well the scene itself had an influence on me in regards to the tightness of the community and also the vibe of the Chicago metal scene. When I was a teenager and started going to a bunch of shows and stuff there were some great clubs where you'll never see shows like you saw back then. There was a cool club called Medusa's and I saw Napalm Death there and Cannibal Corpse's first tour in fact. Obituary, Sepultura, Sadus, Atheist so many shows I've seen just in that little hole in the wall. There was another place that's still around called The Cubby Bear and I use to see Death, Dark Angel, Cro-Mags. Very crazy and high energy shows, not just the bands but the crowd as well, so once I got ingrained in that I'd see the same faces and the love of metal hasn't changed to this day. Our bass player Shaun Glass, he comes from like the way far back original death metal scene. He was in a band called Sindrome who released two very cult-like demos, in fact one of them is on a list of whatever most influential demos of all time. Monte Connor, ex-Roadrunner Records put that together. Shaun also had a band called Terminal Death and they opened for like Celtic Frost, Death, I mean way back, like Scream Bloody Gore days. Shaun use to have bands like Death and Voivod and stuff who came through on tour stay at his parent's house so he has a much longer history than I do in the scene cause he was doing that shit at like age 15, ya know. I was there at the right time as a teenager when I formed Broken Hope in high school. I lived in the northern suburbs of Chicago so I started going to Chicago shows and seeing what it was all about and it always blew me away, all the time. When Broken Hope formed I started trying to book Broken Hope anywhere we could play, any opportunity. I knew the Cianide guys and they were around the same time Broken Hope was as well as a lot of other bands you never hear of, it definitely had an impact on the way I embrace the Chicago metal scene. If it's any testament to what the Chicago metal scene means to a Chicago metalhead, I still see the same dudes and women at shows and now we're all like in our 40's.
Shaun Glass enters the room and sits down next to me.
Jeremy Wagner: Wes, if you don't mind I'd like to insert Shaun into the interview.
Wes Cueto: Of course.
Jeremy Wagner: I was just telling him that you have a longer history in the Chicago underground than I do.
Shaun Glass: Well, I'm old. [laughs] Before Broken Hope I was in a bunch of underground metal bands like Sindrome.
Jeremy Wagner: I told him about Terminal Death too.
Shaun Glass: Yeah that was another one, Terminal Death was pretty obscure. When Jeremy and I first met Broken Hope was already up and running and they were right about to release their second album, first for Metal Blade, The Bowls Of Repugnance. I was having issues with my band. It's a long, complicated story but basically I wanted to move on. To answer your question, the Chicago metal scene at that time was really strong. You had bands like Sindrome and Broken Hope and you had like a ton of other smaller bands plus thrash bands like Etrobe and punk bands like Out of Order so it was a really young, diverse scene with a lot of cool bands. Obviously you had your up and coming brutal death metal underground bands but also stuff that was really starting to grow was like Ministry. So it was really diverse in the late 80s/early 90s. It was cool, Jeremy and I would have some mutual friends obviously going to heavy and death metal concerts.
Jeremy Wagner: I would see Shaun at all those shows I was tellin' you about Wes. I went to so many shows and I would see him at every goddamn one.
WC: Yeah, he mentioned that you opened for Celtic Frost.
Shaun Glass: And D.R.I., on the Dealing With It! tour at the Metro. Oddly enough I think we were both together at an Obituary show once at Fouch's. They had a BYOB and a lot of local bands started at that bar.
Jeremy Wagner: I told Wes that you were all over the place out of the gate much earlier than I was. You had like Death and Voivod stay at your parent's house and shit.
Shaun Glass: Terry [Butler, Obituary bassist] and I have known each other a long time. He was playing in Death right after Scream Bloody Gore was recorded, Chuck basically took Massacre; Rick, Terry and Bill as his new band members. I had Chuck come out and do some shows and stay at my parent's and I met Terry cause he slept at my parent's house for 3 nights. So it's kinda like full circle that we're all on tour together. Obviously we're a little older but it's cool ya know. There's a long history on this tour, Broken Hope and Obituary go back for years outside of the Chicago scene, Jungle Rot as well being from Wisconsin.
Jeremy Wagner: In fact, the first show with Broken Hope opening for a national act was Sepultura, Obituary and Sadus on this Roadrunner tour and it was like 1990.
Wes Cueto: And Sepultura was the headliner?
Jeremy Wagner: Yup, they were the headliner. I think they were still doing one last leg of Beneath The Remains, Obituary was on Cause Of Death and the second album by Sadus, Swallowed In Black. It was funny because it was my first time meeting Obituary and they were one of my favorite bands, Sepultura too at the time and I was on cloud friggin' 9. Here I am now doing direct support for Obituary on a full blown North American tour with Broken Hope's return, it's kinda surreal ya know.
Shaun Glass: I think when Broken Hope played that show it was pre-Swamped In Gore.
Jeremy Wagner: It was!
Shaun Glass: They were on their demos at that time.
Jeremy Wagner: It was really nerve-racking. I got that whole show on video.
Shaun Glass: Really?!!
Wes Cueto: Any stories?
Jeremy Wagner: I'll tell you a particular incident that happened at that show that's now legendary. It was even mentioned when Cause Of Death was inducted into the Decibel magazine hall of fame. They mentioned in the interview about that touring cycle for Cause Of Death and an explosion that happened on stage at a show in Milwaukee. Well that's the show Broken Hope opened for and I'm the only person in existence who was videotaping when the explosion happened. So when that issue of Decibel came out I gave a copy of this tape to someone at Blabbermouth and he loved it and wanted to incorporate it into a news piece on the Decibel hall of fame issue but needed me to upload it to youtube so I did and you can search for it under "Obituary: the explosion." What happened was, and the Obi guys will tell ya, they had their own pyro and they would use it even if the promoter said they couldn't.
This was in the Eagle's Ballroom up was in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, again Broken Hope's first gig opening for big international death metal bands, an exciting time. I've got this camera on a tripod on the balcony and I was on the side of the stage watching while that was filming up in the balcony I wanted to be on stage and join the show. They had their pyro set up on the drum riser and all three bands on that Roadrunner tour shared a backline. They got these pots, they're called, which shoot the pyro and what happened was one of the roadies accidentally blocked one of the pyro tubes so when he hit the button, the pyro went off but the one pot that was blocked exploded. On the screen when you watch the video it goes completely white for a brief second like a goddamn nuclear bomb dropped in the Eagle's Ballroom. After that one of the bass drums was on fire and the guys took pieces of shrapnel to their backs, but they kept playing the song, they didn't stop! The front of the drum blew off over the crowd and landed on the light board.
Wes Cueto: Wow.
Jeremy Wagner: I was on the side of the stage and I was so scared I'll never forget the heat and being showered by shrapnel. Pieces of metal and wood went flying, all kinds of crap. I literally almost had a heart attack man. It's lucky no one got killed, maimed or anything else but the proof is on youtube and there is an interesting story for sure, from that show [laughs].
Wes Cueto: That's pretty crazy. Your sound and song structure on Swamped In Gore stands apart from what most other American bands were doing at that time. It almost seems more influenced by bands like Napalm Death or Repulsion rather than Obituary.
Jeremy Wagner: That's accurate. When I first formed Broken Hope I really worshiped the band Death a lot man and I was all into grooves and brutal hooks, and I still am, we still use a lot of super heavy hooks and shit. I was just starting to get into the first Napalm Death album, everything was hitting me at once: Death, Carcass' Reek Of Putrefaction album, I was an old Immolation fan too and they're friends of mine from the demos. I was into their fuckin' demos like big time, ya know. So I had all these underground demos and albums when Napalm Death came along they became one of my favorite bands but right before I got into Napalm I went on this trip to see two shows. One of them was Dark Angel at L'amours in Brooklyn and then the only time you could ever see Morbid Angel was this one time they were doing an east coast tour. Altars Of Madness came out but it wasn't even licensed in the US. I had already hooked onto Morbid Angel and that's what really got me fuckin' goin'. I was like, "Holy shit!" because they had the grind sound with Pete, the god, Sandoval but it was death metal! I never heard anything like Morbid, so I went to see them and I had bought Altars Of Madness as an import ya know back when it came out when I was 18 or 19 and it was a lot of money to spend I remember. So I got that and goddamn, I bought another album at the same time- Terrorizer's World Downfall. Now you wanna talk about grind, that's what influenced me Wes. Terrorizer had such a profound impact on me that instantly even my songwriting changed to where I evolved with Swamped In Gore, Broken Hope's debut album. There are songs on there that my elements of grind riffing and I think we'd got a little bit faster on The Bowls Of Repugnance. Shaun has known me forever, my best friend and partner in crime with Broken Hope, he knows Terrorizer's World Downfall is my favorite band to this day.
Shaun Glass: When I met him he lived in a World Downfall long-sleeve [laughs].
Jeremy Wagner: No dis on the new Terrorizer thing that's now but that original World Downfall album, even their demos I love their demos, it was the best. I've been fortunate enough to spend time with Jesse Pintado, rest in peace, talking about Terrorizer. I've had lunch with the famous Scott Burns and I didn't care to talk about any other album, all I asked him about was him doing World Downfall.
So yeah, that's where the grind came in. Napalm Death is still one of my favorite bands though I love em and they still kill it to this day. The first time I met Repulsion, Broken Hope played at this club as a demo band, we played with Obituary there after that Milwaukee show I told you about. Like the next year, they came up to do that one show. So I did a show with them and Repulsion at the same time but I can't say that Repulsion are a direct influence on me at all but I have much respect for them. They're from the midwest and they're pioneers of grindcore.
Wes Cueto: Broken Hope is noted for being the very first death metal band to ever record an entire album digitally. How did that come about?
Jeremy Wagner: Well that was just something that we happened to fall into. Brian Griffin our old guitar player and producer of the first Broken Hope albums, had graduated from a recording school. He wanted to be a recording engineer and got a gig at a place called Wave Digital which is in Gurney, Illinois. Gurney is where Broken Hope is based out of, that's where we came from, we all went to school there and stuff. Brian Griffin didn't grow up there but he got this job at this local studio where they would have different, bigger bands that could afford to record there. We would dream of recording there because they had this big board and it was really swank and stuff. We did our first demo like on an 8-track and stuff so when we hooked up with Brian, we pretty much got to record for free.
We would go in at night and set up all our shit. We were soon recording 24-tracks digitally. Our second demo was recorded there digitally. Our second demo was definitely much beefier sounding in production and more polished so that's what we shopped around and got our first record deal off too. Once we were signed and prepared to do Swamped In Gore it was like a no-brainer, we were gonna do it at Wave Digital Studios, Brian was gonna engineer and produce it and so as it turned out we ended up being the first band of our genre to record an all digital album. You see albums that were like ADD and transferred to digital but we recorded it like that. Even as a real young band on a debut album, you can hear the difference in quality with the digital realm. It's definitely easier to work with, I know for Brian to do editing and stuff like that. So it was pretty much just being at the right place in the right time.
Wes Cueto: Where does your lyrical inspiration come from?
Jeremy Wagner: Pretty much all horror based. It could be anything from, spanning all five Broken Hope albums so far, I've written about a lot of stuff which either came off the top of my head. I was always writing short horror stories, before I actually got involved with music in grade school, junior high up through high school. So when I started forming bands before Broken Hope, I'd write a ton of lyrics and try writing original music. I just remember a lot of lyrics at the time were about killing posers [laughs] ya know, hair metal guys and stuff like that. But I'd write about monsters and shit so I always was, and to this day being a novelist now, I read nothing but horror anyway. I draw inspiration from horror movies and fucked up things that happen in society.
I always say man, and it sounds like a cliche but, truth is stranger than fiction. So ya know songs like "Dilation and Extraction", "The Internal Twin", "Chemically Castrated" songs like that by Broken Hope, "Bag Full Of Parts" off Swamped In Gore. These were all based off true things that I read. I basically seem to latch onto some type of horrific, disturbing subject matter that might be in real life or just my own friggin' horrific mind comes up with original content ya know. But I can get ideas off anything, honest to god, I could be at the local grocery store here in Seattle shopping with Trevor from Obituary, getting' some sugar snaps and I'll just make up something really screwed up man and be like, "You know what? That's a badass idea!" I'll pull out my iphone, pull up my note ap and just start typing away. That's how I do it nowadays, back when we use to not have cell phones I'd write shit down anywhere I could, like in the car right away or anything. There's nothing I hate more than forgetting a good idea.
Wes Cueto: Yeah, that's the worst. So tell me about The Armageddon Chord?
Jeremy Wagner: Oh yeah! I had a best selling novel that came out last year called The Armageddon Chord. At our merch booth there's like some promo shit and they've been selling the book there. It's been a bestseller in four countries, #4 on the Barnes & Noble paperback bestseller list, it got reviewed in Rolling Stone magazine, Publisher's Weekly, I've had a real good ride off it. It's about this guitarist who's revered as this guitar god. He's like a super rocking badass guitarist, he's kinda like Steve Vai times ten. He's been in the biggest rock/metal bands in the world but in the book he's going solo. He transcribes this evil song from hieroglyphics unaware that it's a key to unleashing the apocalypse upon the Earth. Hence, The Armageddon Chord.
Wes Cueto: Is it 'done in one' or part of a series?
Jeremy Wagner: That's just a one off, I have two new novels done that will be coming out next year. Each one is a separate entity, each one is all horror. I just have working titles right now, I'm waiting for my publisher and editor to give me the seal of approval. This first one was through a company called KRP publishing, that was one my agent signed me to. That was just for that book and since that has done pretty well, I've got a couple other publishers interested. I also publish short fiction through like St. Martin's Press which is really huge so that's kinda in the ballpark I want these next two books to be. If I could get like a two or three book deal I'd already be set up to go. I'm confident no matter what they'll be out next year.
Wes Cueto: What is it that you hope to attain with your work as an artist in either writing a novel or recording a Broken Hope album?
Jeremy Wagner: Well if you can latch on to what I'm saying, weather it's writing a Broken Hope song and working on riffs or taking the synopsis that I've written down for a novel I'm gonna start there's like a this unseen thing in front of me that's not quite clear or vivid enough for me to tell what the end result is but when I get into something that I know is the right track and I know it's gonna be when I'm done there's going to be a kick ass song or story all I can say is I'm trying to grasp this thing, call it a sphere or something in front of me, that embodies the song or story. It's right there, my juices are flowing, I'm riffing out, I'm writing and I know what the story and riffs are about. I know once I've got a verse or a chorus their gonna come back in my song, I just need a badass breakdown or bridge ya know. I'm not constantly trying to make something that sounds like "crunch, crunch, crunch" ya know what I mean? Whenever I write a riff and turn it into a song or write a story that becomes short fiction or a novel the best part of the experience is its just flowing and I can see that it's going somewhere and it has an end thats just floating in front of me but I just don't have a grip on it yet. When its done I have a grip and it's like, "Oh yeah! That's what this was meant to be!" So I don't know if that makes sense but that's my total artist point of view Wes, that I'm thinking about going into that.
Wes Cueto: Interesting. How has the band dynamic changed since the inclusion of your new singer Damian?
Jeremy Wagner: I would say it's the band I wish I had in the 90's. The chemistry with Damian, and the band as a whole, and the professionalism is light years ahead of the chemistry and professionalism we had as a band in the 90's. I always look back and think about how fortunate we were to have put out five albums and got as far as we did because we really had five guys with totally separate personalities that were always always hard to keep on the same page. It was always a struggle to get everyone to participate in being there for band practice, much less to tour or anything else. I felt that I had to micro-manage a lot of stuff and I was always fighting battles to take the next step forward. Not every guy was unenthusiastic but there were some that were really just bumps on a log and I had to light fires under their asses just to get them to do anything. That's the passion I had for Broken Hope ya know, Broken Hope is my child and it's like I wanted to do everything possible. I was in my 20's and I wasn't exactly business savvy or knew what was always best, I always thought I did. Anyway, my point is now, all these years later, this version of Broken Hope which is the permanent version of Broken Hope is now on a musicianship level far superior to what we were in the 90's. It's just a better band in every way, shape and form. From the way everyone is passionate about their instruments and makes an effort to be the best they can be on stage to be a showman and make sure when people see us live we're fuckin' just laying down the law. We don't want to be boring.
Again, the formula and the chemistry, we're all like best friends. Shit I never did before ever with Broken Hope like having a group huddle before we go on stage, having a fuckin' fun time and not looking at it like it's a job or anything. We cant get enough of it, we wish our set was 2 hours long! When we get off stage the guys are hugging each other and everyone's excited about the future because we're all gonna do another Broken Hope album that'll come out in 2013. So with that, let me be clear that I do hold a great deal of respect for the Broken Hope of the 90's because that's where we started from, those five albums. Now, I just look forward to the next five. We're not taking a vacation, we're not going away, it'll be one album after another and I couldn't be happier.
Wes Cueto: That's great to hear... So who are some of your favorite authors?
Jeremy Wagner: Well, let's see there's Peter Blauner, Stephen King is an influence on me his work is always touch and go with me though, it really depends on what's what but I admire some of his early stuff. Peter Straub, an author named Collin Harrison, um what's that guy's name... I'm drawing a blank right now but theres this author who wrote a book called The Passage, it's a vampire novel thats really really good which came out a couple years ago. He's got a sequel to that coming out called The Twelve. Hopefully your editors will look him up, you never know, he might read this and think I'm an asshole [laughs] but that guy's really good though. [*note: his name is Justin Cronin] There's Jack Ketchum who's also a horror writer, Peter Benchley is actually one of my favorite authors too, ya know.
Wes Cueto: Ever read Dennis Wheatley?
Jeremy Wagner: No, I haven't.
Wes Cueto: Some of the old Hammer Horror films are based on his novels.
Jeremy Wagner: Oh, no shit! I have to check that out. I don't just read horror, I'm a big fan of dark fiction anyway. Shit where characters go through hell and there's not really any happy endings.
Wes Cueto: Yeah, I like that too. My favorite author is actually Robert E. Howard.
Jeremy Wagner: Yeah! When I was a kid I had all those paperbacks! Edgar Rice Burroughs too!
Wes Cueto: Cool! With all the Frank Frazetta covers?
Jeremy Wagner: Yeah, I had all the Tarzans, John Carter of Mars, The Land That Time Forgot, all that shit. I can relate to that. I like going to movies a lot too.
Wes Cueto: Who are some of your favorite directors?
Jeremy Wagner: John Carpenter. I just got to meet him like a month ago and that was pretty badass.
Wes Cueto: Nice. I love Prince of Darkness.
Jeremy Wagner: Yeah, that's a great movie. I'd say my favorite horror movie is The Thing by him and I also love the original Halloween. The Phantasm, I like that movie a lot. Tons of movies. My house is like a whole hall of fame for horror movies.
Wes Cueto: Ever seen Maniac?
Jeremy Wagner: Oh yeah! Tom Savini did the gore effects for that one. You ever see The Car?
Wes Cueto: Yeah, I have.
Jeremy Wagner: I like asking people about that because not many have seen it. That movie scared the shit outta me man [laughs].
Wes Cueto: What can you tell me about the upcoming Broken Hope record?
Jeremy Wagner: No title yet but I've got some definite working titles. I've got some lyrics that I've been sitting on since when Broken Hope was originally going to do our sixth album, right before we broke up. I have my lyrical content going back to then and stuff I've written now as well as riffs that I had back then and new riffs now. On this tour when we soundcheck I've been playing new stuff. The only thing I've ever done is record guitars and drums like for personal demo use so I don't forget this shit but this tour ends on September 30th and when we're done we'll go home and then write the new album. We want to get it written, recorded and done by the time spring rolls around.
Wes Cueto: Speaking of spring of next year, I heard Broken Hope is playing the Maryland Death Fest. You excited?
Jeremy Wagner: I'm hella excited about that. Ya know Repulsion's on the damn bill too man!
Wes Cueto: Yeah and Carcass!
Jeremy Wagner: And Carcass! It's gonna be so great man, I cant wait. The organizers of Maryland Death Fest have always been really cool as hell to me. They've touched based with me here and there over the years just to see if there was any chance we might be reuniting. We got a lot of those questions from promoters around the world, more so in the last five years so that's what kinda helped get us to where we are now is the interest. I always dreamed of bringing Broken Hope back but again here's another cliche, "Things happen for a reason." Going away for so long was one of the best things we could've done because it perpetuated the interest in the band, which I'm thankful for, but it also brought in a bunch of new fans that weren't around a decade ago.
Wes Cueto: Absolutely. Death metal was also sort of dying out in terms of popularity at that time as well.
Jeremy Wagner: That's right it was. The line up that we have now is also something that just couldn't have happened within a week. Just before the break up I was done dealing with hired hands. I just wanted to work with guys that were gonna be in the band for good, like we have now.
Wes Cueto: That's really cool, I'm happy for you. Any other big festivals or tours planned after this run with Obituary?
Jeremy Wagner: Nothing with Obituary but I would love to tour with these guys any chance we could get. This has been the funnest tour, like I said we've known these guys for years but to tour with them is really cool. I mean, we all get along so goddamn well its not even funny since we go way back in the scene. I can tell ya this Wes, before we do Maryland Death Fest we're supposed to headline some death fests over in Europe somewhere. I don't know the friggin names of em, they're like over in Germany somewhere.
Wes Cueto: There's a lot of people that come from all over the world to Baltimore for death fest too.
Jeremy Wagner: Yeah, I know. Case in point: a huge huge fan of Broken Hope, he's from Adelaide, Australia and he's never seen Broken Hope. He's insane about us and when we were announced to appear on Maryland Death Fest he said it finally gave him the excuse to pay for an expensive plane ticket and go to the fest cause with a fest like that a fan of ours also loves Carcass and Repulsion and he loves Exodus too and Venom so he was like, "Yeah, I'm comin'!" I can see where people from around the world would be drawn to this and thats pretty badass so yeah we're looking forward to it. We're doing these fests in Europe then we're flying straight to Maryland then somewhere in that mix our album will drop. As the summer rolls on we'll probably go back to Europe and do some festivals and come back and tour for the new album.
Wes Cueto: Nice. Is the album going to be released through Metal Blade?
Jeremy Wagner: No, not with Metal Blade anymore. When we made the announcement that we we're back sight on scene two record deals were sent right to our manager so those are being negotiated. Metal Blades been really cool about promoting this tour and Broken Hope, obviously they have our catalog and everything so hopefully the tour will probably help sell the catalog. Who knows, Metal Blade might step up and get us again. I know they're sending some people to see us at the Key Club show in Hollywood and there were some dudes who came out to New York and Chicago already from other labels so its gonna be good.
Wes Cueto: Sounds like you have an exciting year planned out for Broken Hope in 2013!
Jeremy Wagner: Fuckin' A! These aren't just gonna be like concrete records outta someone's garage, it'll definitely be the real shit. Every step we're taking now, everything we do, we do it so that it makes sense.
Wes Cueto: Awesome. Last question: Whats your favorite beer?
Jeremy Wagner: Heineken. That can go either way sometimes when I tell somebody. Usually when I tell Europeans that and they're like "Are you kidding?" I'm not a real fan of US beer but the guys in my band will drink anything. Shaun likes Coors Light.
Wes Cueto: Yeah I can tell someone likes Coors Light.
Jeremy Wagner: Our drummer Mike is into that whole PBR crowd, ya know but I like Heineken. The first time I tried it was in 1996 when Broken Hope toured with Deicide and they had a bunch of money so they could afford all this expensive European beer but I think those guys are more into smoking weed than drinking. So we shared a bus together and they offered us their beer while they went off and got high so that was the first time I tried it and I was like, "Whoa! this stuff is great" and its been my favorite ever since.
Jeremy Wagner and horror maestro John Carpenter